Tables Ladders etc

[ZEROxOWF]

Im a new commer to IWC but i don't think they are really "pushing the envelope" like they should, i think they should try to surpass ECW, CZW, XPW, NWA etc , which means no boring matches, excellent wrestling, and solid angles, and some hardcore wrestling, there should be at least one table used at every show. i know im probably gonna get flamed for this but if N~Con really tried he could fill that entire arena, the talent is there it just has to be managed properly (im not saying he isnt doing so, im just saying in general) they need some great technical stuff, as well as lucha style, and hardcore, they should be a well rounded company, they need more "gimmick" matches regular wrestling for the most part is boring anymore,if they could convince the general public that they are the real deal, they wouldnt need guest spots( im not complaining) id love to be a booker at iwc, hell id do it for free, i dont mean to sound condecsending (s/p) but i dont want the company to go under or whathave you ;D

[JTM]

You're right, you are a newcomer to IWC. A show back in April featured New Jack -vs- T. Rantula. In the match, New Jack dove off the balcony of CCAC through a table. The only problem with this was that the next scheduled match was Dean Radford -vs- Sterling James Keenan in a TABLES match. It completely killed off the crowd for the main event.

[ZEROxOWF]

yeah i heard about that im just saying wwe sucks anymore cause they have no competition, im not saying we need to have exploding barbed wire or anything but ya know ......... and the return bout for new jack and trantula sucked lots of blood thats it

[The Shadow]

I'm going to hold back on flaming you for now, but your post showed a complete lack of understanding of the state of professional wrestling in 2004. The most successful companies besides WWE are not doing hardcore wrestling, limiting the gimmick matches, and for the most part doing straight wrestling. Honestly, every time IWC has attempted something gimmicky, it has failed, usually miserably.

If IWC goes under, it won't be due to the lack of gimmick matches. Most of the crowd has grown to react to the storylines. IWC should not be "pushing the envelope". They have their niche and they should stick with it.

I suggest you pick up some ECW/XPW DVD's if you want to re-live 1999.

[booswayn]

The said:

The most successful companies besides WWE are not doing hardcore wrestling, limiting the gimmick matches, and for the most part doing straight wrestling. .

could not agree more. when xpw was on tv around here at first i loved it. but after 3-4 shows with one deathmatch/light bulb/tack something or other match after another,it got old REAL fast. look at how quickly some of those organisations lost attendance. people who go to wrestling shows go for wrestling. the occasional hardcore match is just icing on the cake.

[ZEROxOWF]

i'll take a quote from scott stiener, " i don't know whats less in here, the I.Q. or, the amount of teeth you people share. The definition of hardcore has nothing to do with tacks or barbed wire, the definition means absolute, the bottom line is if they don't offer something that every other company does, they are just gonna be every other company and they wont matter to any one but locals, thats my point, shadow i dont know what your problem is, nor do i care, youre getting a little ridiculous though

[The Shadow]

Well let's just say then, that you have your opinion and I (along with probably the rest of the board and every wrestling company that's had long term success in the history of wrestling) have ours.

Maybe you need to study which companies had the longest runs, and what they did. And which companies "did things different from everyone else" and how long they lasted.

I'll even give you a start. Research ECWA and the Memphis territories, and then go research ECW.

Your credibility was pretty much ruined with "there should be one table used at every show".

[tydawson]

The said:

Your credibility was pretty much ruined with "there should be one table used at every show".

along with "regular wrestling for the most part is boring anymore"


although I do agree, you have to be different, but not to the extreme. I mean ECW got big off of straight wrestling with a chair or something thrown in. If you think about it, anything really extreme was never put on their TV. The ultra violence doesn't need to be IWC or would it even help in the slightest. That takes away the audience more than it gains I think.

[XBigXTomX]

Hardcore is so dumb, fire, barb-wire, thumb tacs, all that stuff is dumb. If you think this stuff is needed to have a good match you need to quit watching wrestling. Believe me I was much like you at a low point at my life and I thought that stuff was good then I saw a CM Punk match and my whole life changed. Places like IWC are changing the face of wrestling today. I feel and this is my complete opinion people like New Jack should never be let in the door. Doe should do what he is best at "wrestling" I would rather see someone in an armbar then someone powerbombing someone else off something onto a table. Do you know why hardcore is so popular because any idiot can watch it and think its sweet but someone who is smart and watching wrestling for the wreslting thinks its completely dumb. Look at CZW or IWA MS they have more "wreslting" matches now then ever. The Hardcore deathmatch crap is getting old and its going to take someone who has "talent" to die before morons realize that it is a waste.

[The Shadow]

I don't know that I would go that far. I think that hardcore style matches have earned a place in wrestling today. BUT, they must be used sporadically, and performed by people who know how to do it and know how to make it mean something.

Witness Foley v. Orton. That feud was built up over months. The fans were given a REASON to care about the match and to WANT to see these guys tear each other apart. I have no problem with the use of thumbtacks in that match because they were used to help tell the story, not to BE the story, or BE the match.

Also look at the first IWC cage match. It wasn't just thrown in there to have a cage match. The feud was built up over months, and the cage was used to blow off the feud, just like it had always been done in the past. It wasn't two guys thrown in a cage just for the sake of having a cage match.

Given a very good reason, and used very sparingly, a hardcore style match can be effective.

[shookerdo]

The said:

I don't know that I would go that far. I think that hardcore style matches have earned a place in wrestling today. BUT, they must be used sporadically, and performed by people who know how to do it and know how to make it mean something.

Witness Foley v. Orton. That feud was built up over months. The fans were given a REASON to care about the match and to WANT to see these guys tear each other apart. I have no problem with the use of thumbtacks in that match because they were used to help tell the story, not to BE the story, or BE the match.

Also look at the first IWC cage match. It wasn't just thrown in there to have a cage match. The feud was built up over months, and the cage was used to blow off the feud, just like it had always been done in the past. It wasn't two guys thrown in a cage just for the sake of having a cage match.

Given a very good reason, and used very sparingly, a hardcore style match can be effective.

I agree with all of that.

Hardcore matches should be put in a feud where you belive these guys just want to hurt each other anyway they can. IWC did I really good job with the cage match.

[tydawson]

yeah, I agree with Shadow here again... timing is everything.

and I know people get off on death match stuff. I can tolerate it to an extent... but if you look at it in today's scene, it is definitely not getting over, did the KOTDM tourney last year even break 200 in attendance including bus trips and such?

I still don't understand how IWC is outdrawing PWG, IWA MS, JAPW, CZW sometimes.. and it gets little media attention.

People love New Jack. I think he adds to the show. Maybe even draws a few people that wouldn't N~Conally come.

[ZEROxOWF]

once again, the definition of hardcore has NOTHING to do with barbed wire or tacks, and that Foley Orton match was THE best match of the night and probably for they year, WWE has fallen off Rey Mysterio is probably the only one who puts on a good show anymore every other angle sucks, eugene for christs sake, gimme a break and not only is CM an @ hole hes not very talented in the ring, that half hour match on sat night was a major Snoozefest they should have had the main event in its entirety, and probably the ring crew express match that was scheduled for that night, and why would you let eric extasy hold the title? give me a break you guys know thats a joke, when he wrestled radford they got booed out of the building, and yeah i checked which companies did it different, WWE did it different for AWHILE until they killed off all the competition, they have no reason to push then envelope, why do you think CZW and NWA push it so hard?, and if regular "wrasslin" was still popular vince macmahon SR. would still be running the WWWF, they have flair in there now thats bad enough, hes another joke, and i dont expect anyone to agree with me, im not asking you to, im just merely sharing my thoughts and FMW is another company that did it different and theyre still here, xpw would still be around if it werent for rob black going to jail or whatever and the ECW "wrestling wrestlers" i.e. Super Crazy, Saturn, Kronus, Lance Storm, Jerry Lynn, Smoke any one in IWC, My point from the begining is if that N~Con played his cards right then he could fill that entire arena, however i don't see that happening, iwc is gonna turn into the (I)WCW and if CZW were to come here theyed sell the house out, and not all gimmick matches are bad, granted that cage match was poor but thats what you get when you put candido and punk in there, if you take a crap in a box and shake it around youre not gonna have diamonds afterwards ;D now you guys flame nice ill reply to you guys later

[The Shadow]

Well aside from the fact that your post was all one sentence, I think you've officially become not even worthy of being responded to. I will admit though that your post was one of the funniest/stupidest things I've read on the net in quite some time.

[shirleydoe]

Obviously from my matches, I enjoy hardcore wrestling more than anyone, but if you've also been noticing, I've been trying to get away from that as much as possible. I think some of the reasons why I tend to do more brawling is that I'm confident in that style, and can fall back on it. However, I've felt confident that the fans react enough when I actually wrestle some more.

It's not like I'm going to do less in the ring or take less risks. I mean, let's face it, I'm never going to be able to turn my neck like a N~Conal person, lol. But I totally disagree with the argument that we need to be more hardcore, and that's coming from me.

I think wrestling needs a little bit of everything, though, and I think we do a good job of that.